Wednesday, October 05, 2005

Do You Want the US to Lose in Iraq?



This weekend a close friend and I had what I think of as one of the most difficult discussions for us living in the belly of the beast. The question was if you are against the war does this mean you want US troops to die so that the US leaves Iraq?

During the Vietnam War the Vietnamese were fighting for the independence and re-unification of their country which had been divided by the French, US and other imperial powers with the acquiescence of the Vietnamese government in the North in return for a promise of an election in both the north and south that would lead to re-unification. The election was never held by the French and thus the war escalated leading to defeat of the French and finally in 1973 a withdrawal of the US leading to a re-unification in 1975 of north and south.

In the anti-war movement there were many different positions. Buddhists and Quakers said killing is wrong and both sides should put down their arms. In the US liberal Democrats and Republicans late in the game said the US should negotiate a peace with the North. More radical elements called for a victory of the North and re-unification. My favorite slogan however was from the Sparticist League which demanded ALL INDO-CHINA MUST GO COMMUNIST!

The Socialist Workers Party and other Trotskyist and radical anti-war activists argued that the best way to end the war was to remove the US support for the south and to remove its troops. The best way for that to occur, they argued, was to create a broad based movement in the US and around the world that would use many different tactics; petitions, civil disobedience, phone calls, marches, strikes, etc... to pressure the US government and its allies to Bring the Troops Home Now! Their slogan was US Out Now! This meant that even if you were someone who wanted Ho Chi Minh to rule Vietnam and beyond or if you wanted Jehovah to reign here on earth you worked together to bring the troops home.

On the ground in Vietnam mostly authoritarian Stalinist and Maoist groups like the National Liberation Front, the North Vietnamese Army, the Pathet Lao and the Khmer Rouge were trying to kill my cousin and any other Yankee, Aussie or Korean that was fighting to keep their countries free of European domination. They thought, the faster we kill lots of them the quicker they leave. They were right. And there tactics worked, at a huge cost to thier people and environment.

We need to create a movement that leads to the US leaving Iraq. The main reason they will leave is if they are militarily defeated. Does this mean that I want the Jihadis, Saddam thugs, Ansar al-Islam, the Mehdi Army and other assorted nationalists to be the rulers of Iraq?, no. But that is who is organized and is fighting for control of the government. When the US leaves, which it will eventually have to, one of these groups or a similar formation of these groups will come to power. Is this my fault because I oppose the slaughter of Iraqis,? no. It is the fault of the thugs that started the war in the first place. The US will leave because of a combination of death in Iraq, to their side, and hopefully a massive anti-war movement that demands US Out Now! So am I for US troops dying? I would rather they didn't but the quicker they start refusing to be deployed and disobeying orders in taking part in this immoral war the fewer of them will die.

3 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think my favorite of the Vietnam anti-war slogans is "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NLF is gonna win!" Very catchy.

Fons said...

Refusal during the Vietnam actually led to fragging-the murder of a superior officer usually with a grenade. My cousin talked to me about it and it is was well documented, see: http://www.oz.net/~vvawai/sw/sw41/myth-or-reality.html. It became such a problem that the military high command advocated ending the draft, which the political leadership evetually did. I think this had a lot to do with the ultimate decision of the US to withdraw. But let's remember the Vietnamese put millions of lives on the line and acted as if they would be willing to sacrifice millions more.

I would quibble slightly with your characterization of the US military as being a group of have-nots. The Guard in particular come from the many working and middle class folks who have college degrees, thanks to the Guard. They also want recruits to at least graduate from High School these days which may not sound like much to us graduate school folk but it is a marker of some social mobility albiet a slight one in today's work environment. In Milwaukee for instance 50% of kids DON'T GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL! Most of these folks are not being recruited by the military because they are seen as low skilled. The military today however has far fewer members from the elite then it did during the draft days because of the democratic approach of the draft as well as a more nationalist and civic minded ruling class in the past.

Fons said...

When I think of the have-nots I think of lumpen elements, people on the dole, unemployed, very marginal folks who are not a small portion of our society, think the folks who for whatever reason did not leave New Orleans. The military does not even consider this group. College is actually very attainable in the US for all. We have so many different levels of school that you would have to try really hard to not get in if you want to. In most states there are vocational education, junior colleges, state schools and all types of private degree factories. There is also tons of money to beg and borrow. If you want to go to school in the US it's easy. It's also a good way to get out of the lump.