Monday, April 04, 2005

Bye Bye Papa

Before things get too carried away, pun intended, I wanted to say a few things about JP II, too late. This is a guy who just recently said we (all non-sinning Catholics/the overwhelming majority of humanity) are going to burn in Hades for eternity because we don't believe in the one true faith. Osama bin Laden doesn't even claim this. He also says any sex that isn't for procreation, particularly sex between sames, is a major no-no. Masturbation-not allowed. Eating the body and blood (literal) of the three headed god-allowed. Women, they are not worthy of having important jobs like being a priest. He also thought some governments, like the Soviet Union and the Nicaraguan ones were bad because they don't support the wealthy clergy that hang out with the oligarchs, but governments like the Brazilian dictatorship or the Guatemalan governments that murdered their citizens on a mass scale were OK. Liberation theology-a radical Christian ideology that stressed that god was in us all and took off in much of Latin America-was for JP II a major threat that was more of an evil than Fascist dictatorship. He has replaced most of these folks with clergy that think more like him. Which means that for hundreds of years to come we can expect more like him from the Catholic hierarchy. In other words, if you side with the poor, by re-distributing wealth and you see the church as an impediment to this, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT HAS ALMOST ALWAYS DONE, than you can been eliminated and this PAST Pope would not get too worried about it.

If you think this guy was a saint and a positive force in the world we are in worse shape than I thought.


OscarTate said...

Hate to nit-pick, but I think the word is allowed, not aloud. Although, saying these things aloud is also, not allowed. I agree wholeheartedly with the above sentiments. I think I'll go look at what Christopher Hitchens has to say about this one -- that is if his attacks on the Saint of Calcutta extend to her boss.


Random Black Guy said...

fons fons fons.. i guess all those years of catholic school really got 2 u.
oh yeah thanx for the chocolate.. pretty damn good.

anton said...

Ouch! Aloud and allowed, I blame jet lag! Did I mention that this Pope canonized the founder of Opus Dei-a neo-fascist sect of women hating power mongers?

IFStone said...

I recall hearing the Pope talk about the poor and oppressed quite a lot. He also was a vocal critic of Bush's war in Iraq and the U.S. position on the death penalty. He was also a critic of unfettered capitalism.

I think that's worth pointing out, along with his faults.

As far as Liberation Theology, don't you think PJP's experience with the Russian occupation of Poland had something to do with his views of left-leaning politics and theology? Not that I disagree he was wrong on this, but I think the man's background does provide some clues as to why he was so anti-marxist.

I think PJP was a complex character who left the church with more than one legacy. It will be more than interesting to see which direction the Catholic Church goes next. It may be safe to predict we will see more of the status quo, but I feel an African or Latin American Pope could not help but shake up the Church a little.

By the way, I'll take the guy who says I'll burn in hell tomorrow over the guy who says I should be killed today.

anton said...

Sure we should look at people's history to explain their politics but there is a point when we say you are WRONG. If you "advocate" for the poor by criticizing unfettered capitalism but support oligarchs that keep the system in place then your criticism are useless and moot. If you advocate for the poor and sick but deny them condoms or birth control by influencing governments you not only are hypocritical but you are criminally responsible for poorness and sickness. This Pope was an active participant in the worst plague in one thousand years, AIDS. He did this because of an irrational ideological position. His over all words of compassion go for naught given the role he played in ACTIVELY helping spread the disease.

Yipee! the Pope said he was against the war in Iraq but he thought the war in Nicaragua was a good idea? Hypocrisy does not come close to describe this guy.

By the way, can we step back and think for a moment about the reactionary imagery and cult of personality of the Papacy, to say nothing of the bizzare ideology of Catholicism? Are these values that we want to endorse and celebrate?

Anonymous said...

George -- you're stupid